Caerlaverock Community Association – Minutes of meeting 25 August 2021, Barbour Hall, Glencaple
Chairperson, David Gilbert welcomed everyone to the first meeting since February 2020.
Apologies: Maybeth Jamieson, Sue Greig, Jane Baxter, Tom Brown.
FINANCIAL OVERVIEW
The current financial overview is shown below. This income is solely from donations by motorhome and campervan visitors. Costs during pandemic have been lower than usual. The CCA operates a £5,300 annual budget. David noted that the amount available in the bank is important to think about when discussing the Play Park in Glencaple item later in the meeting.
Nature.Scot REPORT
Notes from Suzanne McIntyre: Nature.Scot are doing a lot just now on the reserve including new hides built and in operation, with disabled access. There are ongoing problems with dogs off-lead on the merse which is not good on a nature reserve with birds and nesting, as well as dog owners not picking up after their dogs.
CASTLE CORNER
Regarding the castle corner area with the overflowing waste problems: Council have been asked to keep the bins empty, we will notify them if we find them full. The new bin recycling schedule does not work well outside residential areas. We are finding the bins full before they are picked up again. David noted this is a tourist area and we don’t want rubbish lying about or the bins overflowing.
CAERLAVEROCK ESTATE REPORT
Mark Fogden introduced himself as the new Caerlaverock Estate Manager and gave us an update on Estate activities:
There will be an Estate Office open at Bowhouse Farm, which is closest to Caerlaverock Castle. Mark is working with colleagues to have this office open on the 1st of April 2022. The office will help all the stakeholders to work together better and will be a focal point for addressing community issues.
The Estate is looking to have the farming operation more environmentally sustainable including regenerative farming. They want to work closely with their stakeholders including nature.scot and Historic Scotland. They aim for a cohesive approach with what they’re doing with the Estate’s own enterprises, e.g. the farm lets and other estate property, the Boathouse and Erriff holiday let.
The Estate are looking at branding throughout the estate/area, working with Lady Clare, which will be rolled out in the last quarter of this year.
The Eco Lodge is in construction in Castle Douglas and will be soon in place on the Kelsick (road up to Glenhowan and the Canine Rescue) in September. The groundworks have been started and a track is in place.
Mark is available to answer questions and intends to come to future CCA meetings to give more updates.
Douglas Anderson asked if Mark is working for the Estate or Savills – Mark responded he is a director of Savills, but is responsible for the estate office and will be based in it 2 or 3 days a week, running it as the Caerlaverock brand, not Savills.
CAERLAVEROCK PRIMARY SCHOOL REPORT
Mr Tennant told us that the children have been back for 2 weeks, 29 are on the roll.
Finally, after 4 years the new playground is installed. The kids have not been off the trim trail since! It has been hard work to get here over many years, and thank you to everybody who has donated money towards it over the years (Including CCA, Caerlaverock Estate, Hutton Hall, Barbour Hall and other personal donations).
Regarding COVID, the protocols have changed, there has been a steep rise in cases in D&G. All major staff are double vaccinated. The school had their first positive case in one of the children. The guidelines have changed, the schools do not need to shut, but the parents and staff receive a letter informing what has happened and any close contacts referred to health and safety/track and trace, but the school activities continue without closure.
The school have worked with BBC L.A.B. and Historic Scotland on Discover Caerlaverock Castle and made a video. LINK: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09mfygn
BARBOUR HALL REPORT
Gerry Donnelly, Chair of the Barbour Hall reported:
There is a need to secure, upgrade and modernise the hall. Obviously, things were put on hold during COVID but in the background they have been working hard. The hall became an SCIO on July 1st 2020 which has lots of benefits for the community and the hall. Most importantly they are seeking to have the hall passed to community ownership. Barbour Hall SCIO is working with a lawyer to ensure the title deeds of the hall are passed over to them to ensure community ownership. The committee is working with Creetown Initiative to consult with the community, develop a business plan and seek funding for the changes required.
The hall is clearly in need of improvement as can be seen from simply walking past it. The first action would be to make sure it is made wind and watertight. The small kitchen and old heating system also need improved or replaced.
They hope to have the hall as a true community hub, which was already started before COVID, with film nights for example, but to also include gigs, arts events, gatherings, celebrations, sports and local club meetings. They are poised at the start of an exciting program and a website is being started which will keep people informed as to progress and events.
ALLOTMENTS REPORT
Rob Wells started by showing us a few bags of produce – carrots, broad beans, and potatoes, grown up the road (and available after the meeting, for a donation)!
Sue Greig, chair of the Allotment Committee sent an update, which Rob read:
“The allotment site is coming to the end of its second season and is going from strength to strength. All the plot-holders decided to continue to cultivate on site although some wanted half instead of a whole and others wanted a whole rather than a half. This resulted in a vacant half plot which was immediately taken up.
We now have a small waiting list!
As many of you will have noticed the two central plots have been left fallow this season – resulting in a plethora of wild flowers and grasses. They were unable to be cultivated because of flooding last year which made them unusable. We are discussing what to do in future. More drainage may be what’s needed.
Our produce stall is stocked with fresh organic vegetable and flowers during the summer months from 1pm Sundays to 1pm Mondays. Help yourself and put something in the honesty box. This is proving to be very successful.
We have benches and seats dotted around the site and you are welcome to come along at any time to enjoy the beautiful views and constant bird-song.”
COMMUNITY POLICE REPORT
David Gilbert has been in touch with community policing. There is no local update of noted issues in our area; an officer was not available. We hope to have updates and attendance from the community police in the future. (Note, PC Jaclyn Irving is no longer our community police officer, thank you again to her for her service in the last few years)
David noted he still receives a lot of spams which try to gain access to his personal details and reminded all to be vigilant with emails/texts which just don’t seem right – if there is any question about the validity of a message, always get in touch with the official company/bank through their own official website or known contact details.
NITH INSHORE RESCUE REPORT
No update at this time.
CAERLAVEROCK KIRK REPORT
Maybeth Jamieson sent in the following update which David read:
“The church has reopened for services on Sundays at 9.45am and everybody is welcome. The Church of Scotland has maintained restrictions on social distancing so some pews remain roped off and contact info is taken for track and trace.
Unfortunately, we cannot offer our usual cuppa and chat after the services but that will resume as soon as circumstances allow.”
HUTTON HALL REPORT
Kelly Green informed us:
With COVID, their finances were hit badly and activities such as the senior meals did not happen. The hall reopened recently and up to date with COVID compliant controls and track and trace in place. Two hires already this week have been booked.
They are not sure if a seniors’ meal will be happening this year, maybe it is not the time to be doing this yet with increasing COVID numbers.
If anybody wants to use the hall, people are invited to come and use it, any ideas are welcome.
COUNCIL UPDATE
Councillor John Campbell had a small update:
D&G has been opening up to visitors coming to the region (including motorhomes) – and there is a question whether proper facilities of toilets are in place. In other parts of D&G in the west there are temporary toilets (portaloos). Is this something that could be needed locally? The council can be approached about this.
The speed of vehicles on the roads in the villages and rest of Caerlaverock is on the Council agenda.
MOTORHOME VISITORS / DATA
David Gilbert reported:
Caerlaverock is a tourist area, and motorhome/campervan numbers have increased. Douglas Anderson proposed an envelope system which the CCA put in place earlier this year to find out more data about any issues, where business is going and coming from, and what visitors think about the area, their requirements etc. Visitors can leave donations and comments in an envelope, and post it in a secure box both at Castle Corner and at Glencaple Quay.
We saw that the majority of visitors were very appreciative that the community share this space with them, and we have collated some data: [Note that this data is only for people who chose to fill in an envelope, there are many more visitors to the businesses and locations who did not respond; visitors can also choose whether their data is published]
Since 16th May 2021, locations visited:
- 85 Motorhomes reported visiting the Nith Hotel
- 76 the Boathouse Restaurant
- 75 to Caerlaverock Castle
- 41 at WWT Caerlaverock
- 3 filled in the “other” box to say had visited Vintage on the Nith (this has now been added as a checkbox in the new envelope printing. Numbers here will not have been a good representation)
Number of nights parked:
- Quay End: One night: 139, Two nights 17
- Castle Corner: One night: 46, Two nights 8, Three nights 1
This data clearly shows that motorhome visitors are visiting the businesses, and the local tourist facilities. We will continue to gather this data going forward.
Publishable comments from visitors are put on the website from time to time as we receive them: See: https://www.caerlaverock.org.uk/?s=motorhome
Comments, which could be a point of discussion for the Estate and Council as the CCA don’t control the assets, are: grey and toilet cassette disposal and the issue of full bins.
Mark Fogden and David Gilbert discussed:
The Castle Corner donations are under what should be expected considering the amount of vans parked there, they intend to up the game with voluntary donations, explore ways to increase the surplus income to the community from the visitors parked there. Noted also that it costs the Estate to maintain this site (the CCA shares these costs).
David Gilbert noted:
As a tourist area, the motorhomes and campervans, are here to stay, and appreciate a welcoming community. The funds in the CCA bank would not exist without the donations, and if Mark can work effectively with increasing income from the Castle Corner campsite, the community will benefit even more.
GLENCAPLE PLAY PARK.
This information was published on the website and Facebook earlier, for discussion now at the meeting:
Play Park Paper for Discussion at the August 2021 Meeting
- The current position
The council currently holds a developer’s contribution of £33k which has no time limit.
A similar scheme at Nethermill has cost circa £43k. I estimate a refurbishment and replacement of equipment at circa £50k but this is not certain until tenders are sought/received by the Council. Building material costs have increased substantially this year and this may be insufficient.
There is therefore an estimated shortfall of at least circa £17k.
No further funding from the Council is likely to be forthcoming
Whilst the asset is Council owned we will not receive grant aid from other potential funders.
- Options
- Do nothing and leave the Council to deal with things in their own time.
- CCA seek to take control of the site with a transfer from the Council
- Agree that CCA will contribute the shortfall and leave the responsibility for implementation with the Council.
- Pros and Cons
- The play park is outdated and not fit for purpose in modern terms, particularly with an increase in families to the village. Leaving the matter with the Council may not produce any short term action whilst priorities post-covid lie elsewhere.
- CCA could seek to take control by lease or transfer subject to Council approval but that would mean a radical change in the makeup of the Association. We would need to set up a board of trustees, become a Registered Charity, or move back to a Community Council with all the regulations, elections etc that would entail. This might enable us to obtain grant funding but there is no guarantee. We would need community members to step forward into the new roles and take responsibility for the new asset including:
- Ownership
- Health and safety, including any regulatory inspections
- Maintenance/replacement
- Insurance at additional cost
- General administration
- CCA agrees to pay the shortfall and leaves the responsibility for the site as a whole with the Council. The shortfall could not be grant funded and would need to be found out of current, or possibly, future CCA receipts.
David summarised the 3 approaches above to the meeting:
- Do nothing, leave it to the council to sort out
- Get control of assets from the council, and manage as a community
- Put CCA funds in to cover shortfall but leave responsibility with the Council.
It was considered that doing nothing was not a good option.
Option number 2 would clearly be a huge burden with a lot of bureaucracy involved for the community to take on, not least requiring: a team to be formed, ownership sought through trustees, responsibility for health and safety, maintenance, and to raise more money to cover this in the future. Other members of the community would need to step up to make this happen. This was not considered to be a viable option either.
Cllr Elaine Murray advised that option 2 was suitable for much larger projects, but not so much for a small playpark. It can also take up to 7 years for this to happen.
This left option 3:
David Gilbert has submitted an application to a fund to help improve playparks. Cllr John Campbell advised that this is public realm money which was budgeted from a previous year, which was slippage and moved into this year. We do not have a response on this application yet so should not be taken in account.
Rona Carson noted: from a publication on Saturday, there was an election promise made by SNP to communities in Scotland (£60m) to refurbish playpark facilities across Scotland. £5m of funds within the first 100 days in term going to councils with £60m over the full term for refurbishment. More info: https://www.gov.scot/news/refurbishment-of-play-parks/ There is no information when this would be available as of yet, so also cannot be taken in account. Ccllr Elaine Murray commented that this was only available to councils.
Kelly Green noted: as a parent and childminder, the Glencaple playpark is dreadful. Bankend playpark maintenance is currently being done by locals and the Hutton Hall, just to be aware of this, that help might also be needed in Glencaple in the future.
Lauren Parry added: the parents very much support its improvement. It is a benefit for the school, as nowhere for kids to play in the area. David Gilbert agreed: The football field was unused for several years and now hosts the allotments, so with families coming into the area, it is an important asset to have a modern playpark.
Rob Wells noted: The Community Association as it is, is a very simple structure, bearing in mind the people involved and the time availability – is there an appetite to become a much more complex organisation? We may miss out on some grants as an Association, but also miss out on a lot of bureaucracy too. Rob added that the commitment to £33k from the house developers should be taken up in a timely fashion, or it could go away.
Gerry Donnelly echoes these sentiments, it is an important asset that is used, but needed to be modernised and upgraded. Agreed with Rob, the effort of the undertaking for Option 2 is out of proportion for the size of the playpark, and need to consider if responsibility was taken on, this would have to pass to future generations.
Terry Harrop brought up the issue of the land next to the play park, can it be developed? David Gilbert and Mark Fogden responded: this has been previously discussed, the Estate owns this land, but the Council does not want to take on any more assets. For now, the play park current area is all that is available.
Option 3 was then put to the floor for a decision, to use the money raised from donations to the community from motorhome visitors, towards the shortfall, which was agreed.
David Gilbert and Cllr John Campbell discussed possible partial/split payments of the shortfall towards the full cost which will be taken on board, allowing CCA to pay up over time. Councillor Campbell to revert.
David Gilbert also noted that there is already a yearly budget in place for CCA regular activities and commitments, and this would not be affected.
OTHER ACTIVITIES
The CCA maintains some grassed areas, and empties dog poo bins, as well as some other community features such as creating and maintaining flower/plant displays. Attendees were asked if they could help with some of these.
It was suggested that some sprayed areas around the parish next to signs and seats could be better maintained with strimming.
WAR MEMORIAL
David Gilbert has sprayed the gravel area and intends to lift the gravel, put a weed barrier down and new gravel purchased.
Douglas Anderson mentioned that the cleaning of the Memorial could be by pressure washer which he has. This though is a specialist task which the council does not do for this reason. There is a quote of circa £1,000 for this to be done professionally.
Jan Thom raised the issue of the greenery/hedge around the back of the Memorial, which is overgrown, and needs sorted. David will do this when he does the gravel.
There is a general need for the community to get together to regularly clean the memorial and keep it weed free.
David Gilbert will be in touch with the Kirk regarding Remembrance Sunday, and Terry Harrop has offered to organise the lighting of the (gas) beacon at the Quay.
KELTON CORNER / SPEED LIMITS
The speed limit here (60mph) continues to be a problem – this is not appropriate for this corner, with vehicles passing round on the wrong side of the road. The electronic SLOW sign towards Dumfries does not work – need to find out who responsible and needs fixed.
Cllr John Campbell was asked can anything further be done about the 20mph in villages, or the 50mph in Kelton? It is an issue the community is very sensitive about. We have areas with no pavements and there has been no further community consultation.
Cllr John Campbell responded that there were discussions at the council on agenda items about active travel, parking and road safety and agrees with frustration about the slow movement towards completing the outstanding school 20mph limits being put in place. The criteria were to change from the size of school roll.
Douglas Anderson added his own frustrations about the speed of cars coming into Glencaple from Dumfries, Bankend has a flashing speed sign, there should be one here too.
Cllr John Campbell reminded us that in the Borders the 20mph limits funding came from Sustrans, and was put in place by local authorities. D&G also has 20mph speed limits in Dumfries, and it should be noted that this is a temporary, not permanent measure.
John Carson added comments about the culvert hole at Kelton Bank which has been attended but no action taken for a long time, since reported at Christmas. There needs to be a radical change in speeds in this area, especially with 3 more children at Kelton Bank. He agrees that while there are advantages with revenue to the community with motorhomes, there has been a big increase in tourist numbers coming down that road. This includes the motorhomes but also noted more cars as well as campers, farm traffic, haulage companies which results in this road being a nightmare for locals, cyclists and pedestrians. School buses also now stop on this corner!
General discussion echoed frustrations about the speed of traffic in this area and past the school.
David Gilbert reminded us of our 20mph campaign, of which we have had no response nor updates from the highways team, since last raised, and people here are seriously concerned about the speed of traffic.
AOB
Culver Curry asked about the trees felled opposite Gullsway, and what is happening about their replacement. Mark Fogden told us these were felled without consent and were replaced, but they seem to have gone missing. He will follow up.
Terry Harrop has a query about the maintenance of flower/plant displays and has offered to take over maintenance of the “flower boat” at the end of the Quay.
Kelly Green brought up the issue of the project for First Aid for the younger generation. It will go ahead, but COVID got in the way! David Gilbert responded that the money is still there, he has names, we will support this activity when the time is right.
Terry Harrop brought up an (ongoing) issue about people letting their dogs mess and not pick up on the common areas – outside houses, and on the Quay. Malcolm Laurie responded that we now have 3 dog poo bins in Glencaple, which we empty regularly. This has gone some way towards alleviating the problem. Terry suggested we have some signs reminding dog owners to be responsible.
David Gilbert thanked all those for coming, including those for the first time, with a reminder about the AGM on the last Wednesday of November 2021, and to keep an eye on the noticeboards, Website and Facebook for information.
Next meeting (and AGM): Wednesday 24 November 2021, venue tbc
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